×
all 12 comments

[–]MercurialMedusienne 23 points24 points  (2 children)

My take on the song is that it's about a pair of lovers who are hellbent on destroying each other, despite their physical passion. Like the love has long since died and now they're just hatefucking each to the end of the road, out of spite or codependency or some other equally unhealthy thing.

The doomed relationship seems to be parallelled against the relationship between humanity and God, in which God is only still in this game for his ego and humanity just doesn't really have any other choice.

I haven't read the Book of Judith, but as I understand it, the story is that Holofernes was going to conquer Judith's village, so she seduced her way into his room at night and then killed him while he was drunk.

Interestingly, Judith's village was Jewish, and Holofernes and the Assyrians were going around killing anyone who didn't worship their "false" god.

Also interestingly, a lot of art depicting Judith beheading Holofernes showcases the juxtaposition of a pretty woman in pretty silks with a gross severed head (famous - and best - example (in my opinion) - much in the way TUA juxtaposes the slow, folky first verses of two people getting ready for bed with the frenetic later verses about scratching and devouring innards?

Also also interestingly, Holofernes famously appears in Dante's Divine Comedy, as the shining example of pride coming before a great fall... all the way to hell.

So! What's the point of all this? I don't know!

I don't know for sure, but my read is that "Hello, my hollow Holofernes," is a dig implying that while the female character does sleep with the male character, he should not take that to mean that she likes him. She doesn't care if their relationship ruins his life; she'd probably kill him if she had enough reason.

It's also an acknowledgement between them that they know good and well their shit is doomed; Judith and Holofernes were diametrically opposed (foes). And if this guys thinks she's going to cave first, he's going to learn a little something about where pride will take you.

If we take it a step further and layer that read over the mirrored relationship (humanity and God), it could go one of two ways.

First, the female character is God, and she's just toying with the male character because she can - she calls him "hollow Holofernes" because she wants to remind him that he might be a general, but she's a freaking God, so come at me. No, really, it'll be cute.

Second, the male character is God, and the female character is humanity; and they both know that God has no intention of showing humanity any true kindness anymore, and all she can really do about it is be spiteful. Calling God by the name of an enemy defeated by pride and sex is a pretty good middle finger flipped.

All that being said, I really hope I'm overthinking it, because I want it to be a dick joke.

[–]reign-red 3 points4 points  (0 children)

okay this response brought me so much joys because

1) artemisia gentileschi is always a win

2) diametrically opposed (foes!)

3) my personal interpretation (that it's a reference to shakespeare's love labour lost) can support this theory! at least, it adds to the vibe of the female character shaking her head going 'you're so fucking stupid'

[–]Bread_yepthatsme 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I pray it's just a dick joke

[–]ms45 11 points12 points  (1 child)

My suspicion is that it's a dick joke. In Anthony Burgess' "Shakespeare's World", he mentions jokes about cutting off the head of Holofernes as a euphemism for sex (because the head is hidden, I suppose?).

But I could also just need to get a boyfriend.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

omg, please let it be a dick joke.

[–]Enjoltaire1832 8 points9 points  (1 child)

I always linked it more to the latter. The humility and pride. TUA feels like a warring of different emotions and visuals imo.

I think the joke is that she is calling the male character in the song pride that he doesn't feel the fall (in the subsequent lines) coming

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

And maybe it is hollow because it is not strong anough to not shatter with the fall. The image of pride without any fortitude to back it up.

[–]idgaRobinGoodfellow 7 points8 points  (1 child)

My theory is that it's about a different Holofernes than the one who was beheaded, specifically, the one from Shakespeare's Love's Labor's Lost. Holofernes in the play is a pedantic schoolteacher who thinks himself very smart but is often outsmarted by the other characters, and is quite full of himself, using larger words than necessary just to prove how smart he is.

I think this is likely because Joey and Madeline both performed with the RSC, the character is what could be considered "Hollow" and "blind" as well as "follows philosophies", and the reference is uncommon enough that, yeah, it makes sense that the lover in the song wouldn't get the joke.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point  (0 children)

I think this might be it! it makes so much sense

[–]mostystuckony 4 points5 points  (1 child)

I think she's talking to us, we don't get the joke.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

I like this reading, because it completely changes the rest of the song. Like we are the Lover that is being described in the first couple of verses

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points  (0 children)

Ok. So. In the verse before, madelaine describes the creature tearing her chest open, devouring "what's truly yours". Maybe that's the joke, that she is Holofernes (as in drunk and expecting to have sex, not be fucking murdered by this person she trusted/wanted to fuck), but instead of beheaded she is hollow???

Or maybe it's just a play on the fact that the two words sound similar and I've overthinked it and now will never get it.